David, Imperial Military Lugers of WWI were numbered from 1 at the beginning of each year. At every 10,000 guns the number series was started over again at 1, with a letter suffix added, progressing through the alphabet until the next year. This practice was followed by both DWM and Erfurt. Mauser P-08 began production at serial# 1 with the K date in 1934, and simply progressed through the number-suffix irrespective of year. Mauser cycled through the complete alphabet three times, ending in the n suffix block in 1942.
Complete serial number tables can be found in Jan Still's 'Imperial Lugers' and 'Third Reich Lugers', respectively. Commercial serial numbering began with 1 in 1901, and continued to the 92,000 range in 1921. In that year DWM converted to numbering in the military style (four digits followed by a letter), beginning with the letter suffix i. The commercial serial range is separate from military production, the numbers are not intermixed.Dwight -Dwight. Jan The - Y - block is a good place to look for the first of the 1940-42 dates.
In your opinion, do you feel that all Mauser Luger production blocks went to 10,000? Or maybe 9999. I have read about 1937-S/42 number 10,000 and observed K-date number 10,000.
To my knowledge, no other number 10,000 has ever been reported. I suspect these were unusual pistols, odd numbers created by the man doing the numbering. In my opinion, Mauser used only 1-9999, the same as DWM and Erfurt. There certainly must have been WaA. Directive that spelled out the numbering process, obviously there was for the Imperial pistols.
No where in my research do I find that anyone has ever reported a number 10,000 Imperial or Weimar pistol. Opinions anyone???
Jan, Thanks very much for the detailed descriptioin of the receiver and barrel markings on this gun. You made particular mention that there is no halo around the barrel serial#, obviously this was applied before bluing along with the receiver marks.
The Instructions imply that this would be universally the case; however, as you yourself note on the pistols you present, serial numbers are observed regularly as stamped through the blue. We have August Weiss's comment that 'thousands' of WWII Mausers were rebarrelled after power proofing.
Several questions (some repeats) come to mind: Does a 'halo' observed around a barrel serial# imply that the weapon was rebarrelled before it left the factory? Were barrels replaced at the factory more commonly, and for reasons yet obscure, than we think? My recollection is that Mauser manufactured Lugers pretty consistently have barrel serial# stamped through the blue. Does this represent a fundamental (and undocumented) change in the manufacture of these guns? Are there any examples of Mauser Lugers with perfect (one-tool/one-strike) witness marks with the serial numbers haloed? Hello Jan, Do you know if the 'flat' style of checkering on Erfurt magazine follower buttons remained so or did the checkering vary during the production years? Should all Erfurt magazines display this flat style, regardless of year produced?
Attached is a close-up of an Erfurt magazine I was able to pick up a few months back: Download Attachment: images/iconpaperclip.gif ErfurtMag8a.jpg (Ebbink/616ErfurtMag8a.jpg) 60.87KB Thanks for your help! Wiggle jason derulo ft snoop song lyrics. Best Regards, Pete. Bulding A Luger Collection, One Pistol At A Time.
I picked up four guns this weekend and this is one I know very little about. I will try to get up pictures later, but for now I will describe it as best as I can. Marked Erfurt below 'crown' 90% + blueing grips excellent with no hoster wear bore excellent bright and shiny very low serial number 450 all numbers matching gun, including magazine holster is little rough with broken strap and someone lightly carved 'Breneman' on back of holster has extra magazine numbered 5417 and marked 'fxo' & 'PO8' I have read about 'Lugers' and Erfurt specifically, but I would like an idea as to value. The gun is very low numbered as the earliest known serial number for the 1918 Erfurt is 304 and this is serial # 450. Even though the Erfurt's were 'rough', this one is very original and has been very well taken care of.
Any ideas as to value would be appreciated. I do plan to sell the Luger, as well as, a CYQ Spreewerke P-38.
I have no interest in these guns and need to help pay for the other two 'keepers' I bought. The CYQ is 95% and a very nice firearm as well.
The person I bought these from has been retired a long time and is selling off some his better 'stuff'. Thanks for your help in advance. It looks like a very nice original Erfurt with not being reblued or anything. The matching mag is a certain plus as well as the holster.The other fxo mag is for a prewar Mauser Luger & should not be with this rig. The holster does need work & there is a Gent on Jan Still's Luger site that can repair the strap & replace the pull strap for you. His user name is Thor I believe & does fantastic work.
I think from the low sn# and condition it should fetch a 2-2500 dollar price tag to the right collector.Hope this info helps some? Kindest Regards Danny. I can't be sure from the picture, but it looks like there is a suffix letter below the number on the grip frame, in which case the gun would not be an early production for the year, something that, IMHO, matters not at all and adds nothing to either the interest or the value. The name on the holster could be the name of the German soldier to whom it was issued, or the name of the American soldier who brought it back. It would take some heavy research to even try to find out. In any case it is a nice Luger, and I strongly recommend having the holster repaired (and suitably marked). As usual, I defer to Danny on the value.
'fxo' magazines were made by Haenel of Suhl, both during and after WWII; many were sold commercially in the U.S., and are a common replacement magazine. In my limited experience, they are better for looks than for reliability.
Thanks Danny, I really appreciate your comments. I have no real interest in keeping the Luger and needed an approximate value so I can ask a fair price and expect it to sell. With this information, I am placing it on.
with a starting price of $1,500.00 and I'll see if there is any interest at that price. Should I also list it for sale at this site? I looked the 'For sale or Trade' Forum over and it did not look like it gets a lot activity? Is ther another site I might offer it for sale that is specific to 'Lugers'?? Thanks again. I found this site a short time ago when seeking information about a Belgium drilling and older friend of mine had. I have found the people here to be most helpful and informative.
Thank you again for the information on this Erfurt Luger. I have two main interest in firearms, shooting them and then shooting them some more. Sorry I just couldn't help myself. Actually my interests are in 1950-1980's Smith & Wesson and Colts revolvers, S&W model 27's and Colt Pythons specifically. I also have a keen interest in quality 22 rimfire handguns by both manufactuers, revolvers and automatics. I enjoy Colt Diamondbacks and 'Match Target', as well, S&W 17's and Model 41's. Maybe I can offer some assistance in the future to someone that may have questions about these specific firearms.
Thor doesn't do leather repairs. Jerry Burney ([email protected]) is the expert to go to. He will replace that leather strap and it will look absolutely original. The spare magazine is incorrect, as it is of WWII vintage. Download naruto ultimate ninja heroes 3 psp iso highly compressed. As Jim says, we need to know if there is a suffix letter below the serial number so we can figure out the date of manufacture. We also need the date stamped on top of the chamber. We also need to know if there are any manufacturer and date stamps on the holster.
A rough guess as to the value of the rig would be $1500 to $2000. Thanks for your comments Whippet. I though I included a date stamp picture, but I see I did not so here it is. Inside the holster is pressed into the leather; 'SCHWARZENBERGER' in an arch & Co NURNBERG - 1918 - It also appears to have some numbers and/or letters 'inked' on the inside of the holster, but they are very light and difficult to read. 'BX.XI' Also on the back of the holster it looks as though it was lightly embosed with a crown??? And I can make out a single letter 'R' maybe???
Inside the crown. I hope this helps. The Firearms Forum is on online community for all gun enthusiasts.
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This is a 1913 dated early Imperial Luger manufactured by the Royal Arsenal at Erfurt. The 1913 Chamber date is the year of production by Erfurt, in this case very early in the war. This is a 9mm Parabellum with a 100mm barrel. Just like it came from the battlefield of WWI. (873) NOTE: Photographs taken today with the high mega-pixel camera show more than we sometimes can see with the human eye.
@NikkiSizrHandss Hi, any identifying number from the certificate is fine. Can I also please check if a UK birth certificate and a Validate card are sufficient as ID. Jan 26, 2018 - Aug 23, 2015. To be possible if need be to tell where the certificate was issued from, and to which register entry it relates. Since each certificate. Jan 25, 2018 - Date received by the court. Fee charged/Remission ID. Application for an adoption order (excluding a Convention adoption order). Aug 23, 2015 - Can you please advise me as to why all the birth certificate numbers. Then they will have different serial numbers. Where is the serial number on a british birth certificate.
Magnified close-ups show us tool marks and natural surface conditions that one normally doesn't see in the ordinary handling of the weapon. Photographs are copyrighted, all rights reserved, any extraction, reproduction or display of gun pictures without the express consent of the Phoenix Investment Arms is strictly prohibited. Thank you for your cooperation.
Please visit Legal (tabbed) for Conditions of Sale. This 1913 Luger is characterized by the 9mm 4' (100mm) barrel and was built without a hold open and utilized the long sear. The rear sight is 'V' cut fixed and front dovetailed sight and the frame has the stock lug and hold open device. This model still has the long sear which prevented the gun from being cocked when the thumb safety was engaged. This model of the Luger was produced from 1908 until 1911 for the German Military when the model was changed to include the hold open and add the stock lug.
The extractor is marked 'Geladen' (loaded) and the thumb safety is marked 'Gesichert' (safe). On the left is the frame and barrel matching serial numbers. Military Lugers were numbered 1-10000 and then 1a-10000a, 1b-1000b, and so on.
To properly identify your Luger always use the full serial number with the alphabet identifier. Magazine on right has one number horizontal, might be the personal expression of the maker or a distraction on the line. The holster is in very good condition with stitching still in the white so this uniform spent its life as the early brown and was never later died. The leather is soft and pliable and the belt loops are firmly affixed along with the closure.
Below you can see the manufacturers cartouche with the 1913 date, a real find for a matching dated gun and holster for a 101 year old Parabellum. The Erfurt's are the most proofed models of Parabellums. There are inspector marks all over the weapon in a variety of crowed stamps. Proof marks are well struck and clearly visible. The crown marks with letters are the Erfurt Royal Arsenal and the proof on the left top barrel and side of the receiver is the Erfurt Military Acceptance stamp. On the top right we can see the Crown R/C on the upper left barrel and the Crown proofs on all the minor parts.
In the initial contract to save money the German Government decided not to mortise the frame for the hold open spring which they believed saved them costs. In the field this proved a poor decision because they shooter didn't know when the gun was empty and had to go through the entire charging stroke to reload. In 1914 this order was amended, new guns had hold-opens and old ones were refitted which accounts for the 'pin' in the right rail and a Crown RC.
Serial number placement is in the military ('exposed') style; displayed on the left side of the receiver, the side plate, the locking bolt, the sear bar safety, the extractor, the forward toggle link, the front of the frame, under the barrel, and on the side of the trigger. This example has all matching numbers.
The magazines are Erfurt sleeved and are matching to the gun. On the right the side plate is removed and the '40' from the last two digits of the serial number is displayed. Among the very last pictures of Archduke Ferdinand unknowing that assassins lay in wait along his path. The first attempt was a bomb tossed into this carriage but it the rear cover and bounced under the following carriage destroying that and killing or wounding the occupants. A Serbian terrorist group, the Black Hand, resolved to assassinate Franz Ferdinand during his visit to Sarajevo on 28 June 1914, thereby stalling his proposed reforms. Earlier in the day Ferdinand's car had also been fired at by a, causing him to complain angrily upon his arrival at the city hall. Archduke Franz Ferdinand interrupting the Mayor's welcome speech at Sarajevo's city hall, 28 June 1914.'
What is the good of your speeches? I come to Sarajevo on a visit, and I get bombs thrown at me.
It is outrageous!' While riding in the motorcade through the streets of Sarajevo on 28 June, Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophie were shot and killed by, a Bosnian member of the Black Hand; He first show Sophie in the abdomen causing her severe pain and then shot Ferdinand in the chest with The assassination provided Austria-Hungary with an excuse to take action against Serbia. During July 1914 the situation escalated, pulling in the major European powers via the complex alliance relationships each had struck up with one another. The result was world war.
BELOW The trial of the Muslim Black Hand society which Gavrilo Princip, center, was too young for the death penalty and died under harsh prison conditions. The abundance of proofs are illustrated by the pictures above with the Small Crown letter proofs on the small parts. The above shot gives you the 1913 date, the last year without the mortise on the front of the frame for the artillery barrel and the two proofs on the barrel with the Final Acceptance Stamp and Crown R/C for an factory call back for most likely addition of the hold open. Plus the second toggle Erfurt Logo The thumb safety are Type III with the last two digits of the serial number and proofs. RIGHT: the Erfurt is in full recoil and you can see the long sear marked with the Crown Letter and '40' which is the old style the prevents the gun from being cocked when the safety is engaged. This full Rig includes the all matching 1913 Erfurt 9mm Parabellum, two matching magazine, a 1913 dated loading tool and a 1913 dated Holster.
Clean and well kept by its owner this Luger has the short sear a Crown RC indicating it was brought back to the arsenal for either repair or replacement of a part. The barrel is strong with clear lands and grooves. Original grips are finely cut diamond shaped checkering made from walnut or in some cases beech wood. Original grips were serial numbered to the gun and when installed by the Erfurt factory also proofed. Also in the above right picture you can see the Crown Letter proof on the screws, a characteristic of the early Erfurt. Everyone needs one Erfurt in their collection just to study proof marks.
This is a basic collectors gun that has all the study proofs you could ask for. This weapon is designated as a Curios and Relic (C&R) and be sent to those licensed persons.
See Kenyon, Lugers At Random Page 168. The Erfurt factory was originally located in Saarn and then moved to Erfurt under private ownership. It was then purchased by the Prussian government and produced huge quantities of weapons, estimated to exceed 800,000 before being dismantled by the Allies at the end of the WWI and the machinery then sold to Simson. The 1910 Erfurt Imperial Acceptance stamp was the Imperial Eagle with the cross of peace and the bar of justice, still heraldic in nature as an Imperial proof. The war destroyed vast quantities and these 90 yr old guns that have survived today are treasured in collections throughout the world.
Product Name and Description SKU Price 9 mm; 93% blue, 80% straw, good bore, very good grips, 4' barrel, Mfg. 1916 at the Royal Arsenal at Erfert.The metal finish has mild high edge wear on the rails and side plate, Stamped on top of the toggle. C40488 $1,470.00 9 mm; 95% blue, 50% straw, very good bore, very good grips, 4' barrel, The metal finish has some slight muzzle and high edge wear on the receiver. The breech is stamped 1917, and the front toggle is stamped 'CROWN/ERFURT'. C40356 $1,335.00 9 mm; 96% blue, 85% straw, very good bore, very good grips, 4' barrel, The metal finish is in very good condition. Having very slight edge wear on the rails.
All the visible serial numbers match, except for the non. C40493 $2,000.00 9 mm; 96% blue, 40% straw, very good bore, good grips, 4' barrel, This is a Police reworked pistol. A sear safety has been added.
It is a numbers matching pistol. The magazine has a non matching serial number. C40363 $2,535.00 9 mm; 90% blue, 55% straw, very good bore, very good grips, 4' barrel, The metal finish has muzzle wear and high edge wear on the receiver. Holster wear. The finish is thinning. The top of the breech is stamped. C40355 $2,535.00 9 mm; 80% blue, 75% straw, very good bore, very good grips, 4' barrel, The metal finish on the barrel it has slight muzzle wear and the finish is thinning and worn.
The receiver has high edge wear, on the. C40491 $1,600.00 9 mm; 85% blue, 75% straw, very good bore, very good grips, 4' barrel, The finish on the barrel has slight thinning at the muzzle.
The receiver and the rails and the side plate have edge wear. C40492 $4,535.00 9 mm; 70% blue, 50% straw, very good bore, good grips, 4' barrel, This 1933 KI Post WWI Erfert Luger was rebuilt at the Kassel Ordnance Facility. It's a numbers matching pistol, except for the non matching magazine. C40489 $3,870.00 9 mm; 95% blue, 50% straw, very good bore, very good grips, 4' barrel, This is a Police reworked pistol. A sear safety has been added. It is a numbers matching pistol, except for the non matching magazine. C40362 $2,135.00 9mm Luger; 85% blue, 90% straw, poor bore, very good grips, 4' barrel, Original blue finish, strawed small parts and checkered walnut grips.
Matching serial numbers except the magazine. Proper variation wood bottom magazine with Erfurt proofs, serial numbered 7267/+. C29161 $3,295.00 9mm Luger; 92% blue, 85% straw, good bore, good grips, 4' barrel, WW1 Army issue. 1912 date above the chamber. Crown/ERFURT marked center toggle link. Imperial proofs and military acceptance marks.
British proofed as well with the 'tons' export markings. C25745 $2,000.00 9mm Luger; 92% blue, 80% straw, fair bore, very good grips, 4' barrel, Original blue finish, strawed small parts and checkered walnut grips.
Matching serial numbers including the grips and magazine. Small parts including the grip screws have the small.
C29144 $3,195.00 9mm Luger; 80% blue, 60% straw, poor bore, good grips, 4' barrel, Original blued finish, strawed small parts and checkered walnut grips. Matching including the magazine and grips. Marked on top of the toggle with the crown/ERFURT and over the. Z35278 $3,250.00 9mm Luger; 92% blue, 90% straw, good bore, good grips, 4' barrel, Original blue finish, strawed small parts and checkered walnut grips.
Matching magazine. Pistol is matching except the Erfurt proofed takedown lever, last two digits '09', seven numbers off. C29143 $2,695.00 9mm Luger; 50% blue, 10% straw, fair bore, fair grips, 4' barrel, Original blue finish, strawed small parts and matching number checkered walnut grips. Matching except the magazine.
The magazine is a WW2 Mauser blued sheet steel variation with aluminum. C29085 $1,075.00 9mm Luger; 90% blue, 80% straw, fair bore, good grips, 4' barrel, Original blued finish, strawed small parts and matching number checkered walnut grips. Matching Erfurt proofed magazine. All matching numbers on the pistol except the firing pin.
Crown/ERFURT marked. C29829 $2,250.00 9mm Luger; 75% blue, 50% straw, fair bore, good grips, 4' barrel, Original blue finish, strawed small parts and matching number checkered walnut grips. All matching except the magazine, which is the proper variation serial numbered 8040k/+ and Erfurt proofed. C22880 $1,795.00 9mm Luger; 50% blue, 10% straw, poor bore, good grips, 4' barrel, Original blue finish, strawed small parts and matching number checkered walnut grips. Matching except the magazine and un-numbered firing pin. The magazine is a sheet steel variation with. C29088 $1,075.00 9mm Luger; 80% blue, poor bore, good grips, 4' barrel, Original blue finish, strawed small parts and matching number checkered walnut grips.
Erfurt Luger Serial Number 1918 #5751s
Matching numbers except the magazine which is a reproduction. Standard Imperial proofing and military acceptance markings, small parts. Z29881 $1,495.00 9mm Luger; 98% blue, fair bore, excellent grips, 4' barrel, High quality restoration by Ted's Luger Strawing Service. Rust blue finish, strawed small parts, checkered walnut grips. All original matching number metal parts with small Erfurt proofs except the magazine. C23349 $2,250.00.